frassle/user feedback


An almost-user of frassle sent us this email:

It seems that Frassle's weblog doesn't support Asian characters. When I post a note with Chinese charactors in the body, it becomes something unreadable. An error occurs if the title or the category contains non-English text! So I'm not going to try Frassle until
you've added Asian language support. I wish it realize soon. And
thanks for the great work!

Sadly, this is one area where we don't know what we're doing:

Thank you for your interest. Unfortunately, we're not experts in
software internationalization. We'd like to make frassle more useful to
people who write in non-latin languages, but aren't sure how. If you know
anyone who'd like to help an open source software project get international,
please point them my way. Especially if they have Perl or PostgreSQL
experience.

Shimon Rura

I thought I'd repeat that call for help here. Anyone?

link

Hi Mike!

Frassle's not supposed to be group publishing. The fact that it gives you little control over the appearance of your posts is due to incompleteness, not by design. The URLs being all under the frassle.net space is not intended to group all posts together, but to keep permalinks short (still, having user-specific names under frassle.net would be better).

On the other hand, you're right that when you use frassle, you're dumping your posts into a common database. One major goal of frassle is to maintain a single, easy-to-query database of blog posts—including both frassle blogs and sources aggregated via RSS. The frassle studio, which will be replacing the publisher soon, makes these sorts of uses a lot easier. You can blend content from your blog and other sources in order to make your own google news, or just make websites that many people can contribute to—even from their far-away blogs.

This is all made a lot easier in frassle alpha 9, which will be out tomorrow.

(It would have been out today, but my desktop PC's motherboard shorted and broke this evening. I should have switched to the laptop and deployed a9 anyway, but I wasted some time figuring out what was going on and then got as far as the gas station before realizing that Micro Center wasn't open that late anyway. Damn you Murphy! You win this time…)

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Dear Other J,

I'm not 100% sure what prevented this from working, but one possibility is that your comments used a frassle.rura.org cookie, while your registration was on frassle.net. Although it's the same site behind these two addresses, your browser will only send the cookie to frassle when you access it via the same name as when the cookie was sent.* But if you want your comments to be merged into your new blog, just let me know the URL of your comment blog and I will be happy to move them into your registered blog.

thanks,
shimon.

* I could have worked around this problem if I had thought of it in time, but it's kinda too late now. Well, kinda.

P.S. It looks like Lena succeeded in upgrading a comment-blog into a registered blog, judging by the timing of her posts.

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For those who don't know: when you comment on frassle it's the same as a blog post on your own blog, along with a link that references the item you're responding to. To make commenting easy for people who aren't registered with frassle, we offer a "comment without registering" option where a user can enter a name, website, and email address along with her comment, much like other blog systems.

The difference is that when she submits her comment and personal information, frassle automatically creates a blog in her name. When she comments later on, frassle will notice a cookie in her browser — a little note we've pinned to your computer that says I'm the person in charge of comment blog #312. Using this cookie, we automatically load her next post into the same automatic blog, so that you can see a history of someone's comments even if they're not a registered frassle user. Provided they are using the same browser and that browser supports cookies, all the user's comments will become part of their (automatic) blog.

Later on, if the same user decides to register for real, frassle will seamlessly "upgrade" their comment blog. In other words, their comments will still be there, but now the user will be able to edit them, make new posts that are not comments, change the title of her weblog, etc. This works because the new user registration also looks for the "I'm in charge of comment blog #312" cookie and upgrades that blog rather than creating a new one.

I rather like this design and wonder why other online community systems don't have something similar.

link

Hi Toph! I'm excited to know you'll be using frassle. Your feedback and code contributions are quite welcome. :)

All of frassle's content generation is dynamic, including the RSS feeds. That is what noteset expressions are for: they're a compact query language. You can query frassle blogs on any boolean combination of:

  • feed URL (this identifies the blog something comes from)
  • permalink (in case you want to pull out one specific note)
  • category membership
  • relevance to a certain category (by percentage)
  • word or character count
  • text search

You can also request all notes that respond to a set of notes. For example, to track the latest comments on your blog, you'd want all things that respond to your feed, except for your own posts. All of this can be expressed with frassle's noteset expressions.

Currently, if you want a feed based on a noteset expression, you have to do the following convoluted dance:

  1. Create a publisher page.
  2. Create a block in that page, using the noteset expression you want.
  3. Copy the XML link for that block from the publisher page.

This is a lot of work, on top of the fact that you have to figure out the noteset expression language based on a pathetic grammar. As a simpler alternative, if you just want feeds for different categories, you can simply fetch

http://frassle.net/rss?cat=28397

which is the feed for your computers category. The number after cat= in the RSS URL should be the same as when you browse. These feeds are also available by browsing to any category and clicking the orange XML icon at the bottom of the page.

But it gets better

In the upcoming (this weekend?) alpha 9 release, frassle's publisher is being replaced by the frassle studio, which lets you build streams of content, format those streams into reusable displays called blocks, and build web pages from those blocks. A content stream is just a noteset expression with a name, but rather than writing a nsexpr yourself, there is an easier javascript editor. Each content stream has a feed, so you could just go into the studio, create a bunch of content streams, and use their RSS feeds.

The other enhancements in the studio include pages with customizable themes, programmatic widgets including a blogroll, calendar, and category tree, and many overall speedups and UI improvements.

Responding to a previous post

By the way, in your previous post where you discuss the efficiency of Python generators, you can actually very easily do the same thing in Perl. Instead of saving the result of $sth->fetchall_arrayref() and passing a reference to that, just pass $sth. The consumer subroutine can just call $sth->fetchrow_arrayref() over and over again, just like the generator you describe.

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Welcome back, Francois! I look forward to reading more from you.

Frassle's been kinda steady for a couple of months now, but we're nearing completion of alpha 9. This is relevant because it will make it easy for you to put a blogroll on your blog. The blogroll will be automatically created based on the subscriptions in your frassle aggregator. Coming up Real Soon Now…

(Oh, and there are also the beginnings of user and developer manuals.)

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Jessica,

This kind of cookie behavior is highly browser-dependent, as far as I know. If what you see now is different, could it be because you've switched browsers?

If you experience something strange, could you tell us exactly what steps you took? Something like:

  1. Open web browser.
  2. Already logged in to moose's orchard thanks to persistent cookie.
  3. Open new empty tab. (The distinction between opening a link in a new tab and and creating a new tab and then loading a link may be important.)
  4. Load frassle homepage in new empty tab.
  5. Click logout in new tab.
  6. Login as Knitalong in new tab.
  7. Go to frassle home page in each tab.
  8. Top of page shows moose logged in in original tab, knitalong logged in in second tab.

Thanks for helping make frassle better.

link

Jessica-
The cookie thing is exactly right. You might be able to keep two frassle logins going if you run a separate window. You can almost certainly keep two frassle logins going if you run separate web browser instances, although you might be prevented from doing that by your operating system or web browser. Worst case, you can run two different web browsers (e.g. Safari and Firefox).

link

The old URLs should now work, even in broken aggregators. Any reasonable aggregator (this might exclude frassle's, sadly, but of course frassle doesn't actually fetch its own feeds over HTTP) would respond to the redirection code and get the feed from frassle.net instead of frassle.rura.org. But since apparently some aggregators can't handle that, this server will now respond as frassle.rura.org or as frassle.net without any redirect. Welcome back, subscribers!

link

There has been a very interesting thread among some frasslers recently. It started out with a question by a blogging newbie—Jennifer—about the basic motivations for blogging, but escalated into a discussion between Josh and MySQL-Wikipedia-dude (hereinafter MWd) on the relative merits of Wikis and blogs.

I like both Wikis and blogs, and I don't think they are distinct islands. I agree with MWd that many of the features common in Wikis—like photo and file uploading, version tracking, and multi-user editing—would be important for collaborative work (and often lone work, too). These kinds of features don't seem tied to either Wikis or blogs. They are all on the long list of desiderata for frassle.

So, if all these little features aren't intrisically tied to blogs or wikis, what are the differences between the tools? I want to look at three points:

  1. The prominence of order in time as an organizing principle.
  2. The ease with which a user can directly edit a piece of content she did not create.
  3. The ease with which new relevant content can be found based on the context of an ongoing discussion or long-lived page.

1. The prominence of order in time as an organizing principle. Blogs push it; Wikis don't. On one hand, this makes blogs seem more fleeting—there is lots of stuff scribbled in that drifts off the screen after a little while. Frassle tries to straddle this line by offering another organizational system—categories. But reverse-chronological is still the primary view.

I would argue that, for all its downsides, time-ordering has two huge upsides: it's simple, and it works. For most people, it is too much work to decide upon an organizing principle for a growing body of work. On the other hand, without an organizing principle, one experiences what I'll call the existential quandary of wikis. What came first, the Wiki or its organizing principles? It's hard to add content when you don't know where it might fit in, so many people are reluctant to contribute to a Wiki. Although Wiki designers have included revision history in order to counteract that reluctance, revision control is way harder to understand than "it's a stack of posts ordered by time". With reverse-chron ordering, you might lose some stuff in the pile, but at least you know how the pile works. And hey, it's not so hard to find stuff either, what with all the linking and great search engines. So blogs bypass the existential quandary and yet retain many of the same benefits.

2. The ease with which a user can directly edit a piece of content she did not create. Wikis offer a new user more potential power. But not without a cost: despite impressive Wikipedia vandalism-recovery experiments, people still feel protective of the work they create. Additionally, when people who view the work you've made can easily associate it with you, it's possible to develop a reputation. The permanence and presence of this reputation is what incents people to sometimes compromise their immediate self-interest because of longer-term engagements and opportunities. Humans are socially evolved to put their stamp on the things they create, and the interactions they participate in. Few can contribute to the common good without wishing for at least some recognition. Blogs, on the other hand, are built around people; they even encourage some self-indulgence.

3. The ease with which new relevant content can be found based on the context of an ongoing discussion or long-lived page. The chief way of organizing a wiki is by linking. When there is a small collection of highly-interlinked content (e.g. a wiki for a single project), or a large collection of lightly-interlinked content (wikipedia), linking is either easy and necessary or hard but unneccessary. However, for many medium-sized Wikis, I find linking to be both hard and neccessary. Hard because there is a lot of new content, but neccessary because when something new comes in, if its useful period is to last beyond its time in the recent changes list, it must be linked from more established, related pages.

For this (large) class of challenges, I think Wikis offer only the illusion of simple, flexible organization. In fact, they tend to fall back to the reverse-chronological views typical of blogs, and the few relevant pages are drowned in a sea of mixed-topic recent-updaters.

By contrast, weblogs are really stupid. Nobody who has anything serious to organize or preserve will ever be satisfied with it appearing on her homepage for a day or two, then getting stuck in some calendar archive. This is why blogs offer tools like categories, search engines, technorati inbound links, subscriptions, subscribable egosearches, and so forth. While I think the most competently maintained Wiki can probably beat the best blog, in general the combination of organizing tools available for blogs earns them the win. It's a lot easier to find information relevant to the average weblog post than the average Wiki page.

Finally, although some of what I've written here seems to pit blogs against wikis, I don't think they are so opposite. I think that mainly, the tools we've seen so far have specialized on one end of these scales or the other, but that is a question of the tool designs, not conceptual constraints. Ultimately, I hope we can have tools that incorporate the range of features from blogs through wikis, and allow writers to select the right blend of features at every turn.

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